Something about the idea that the plant-fish ecosystem balance being about the flourishing of those life forms and the success at maintaining it feels... incomplete to me. Maybe it's because I'm an outsider to it. But I would find tremendous joy in admiring the complexities of the biological subtleties and balances and feedback loops, and in feeling like I understood them well enough to cultivate a little corner of it. Maybe that's a dangerous sense of "playing God" (erm, that is a frightening idea) but I hope it's more like a joy in the stewardship of life.
Hmm, none of that feels like it has much to do with friendship which might be why you didn't explore it in a post about friendship! Or maybe it's exactly about what you were talking about, in caring for someone for their sake? I'm tangled in my own thoughts now!
Wait, I'm confused about the friendship part. That wasn't part of this post. Are you getting it confused with the draft post I sent you?
Also, I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at with the incompleteness. I would have understood the joy/interest/meaning of maintaining the plant-fish ecosystem as including understanding the complexities. Isn't that part of aiming at its flourishing? And I see nothing connecting to playing God there. It's understanding the life forms on their own terms, which seems more like subordinating to them than dominating them.
Our family has been petless for the 18 years we've been a "family." Mostly because I didn't want to be the one "doing all the work" as you described. I consented to my daughter getting three rats as pets this year because at 11, she's finally old enough to handle most of the caretaking load. They've brought a lot of joy to our family! (But I am STILL holding firm on not getting a dog... 😅)
Thank you for the shout out and thank you for another great post! While thinking about your current essay and the one on AI friends, I started to think that perhaps what we are looking for in these relationships is to be needed by someone. One of the worst things that can happen in life is when nobody needs you for anything anymore rendering your life purposeless. Even if you have a lizard for a pet that shows little to no emotion in a sense that we could understand, it still needs you for its survival and this seems to provide some sort of a meaning and purpose to keep going. Seniors must feel this very intensely, even if often only subconsciously, hence many of them get pets, volunteer at hospitals, help out with grandkids, or write to share their wisdom. Perhaps this desire to be intensely needed by someone is one of the reasons why many people enjoy having kids so much with some having 5, 6, 7 and more kids? Taking care of a small child is A LOT OF WORK! But this work fills one's life with so much meaning and purpose that some people crave more of this work as their older children get more independent. Perhaps, this is why taking care of a disabled child is so meaningful for many parents: a child like my younger daughter will always need me giving me a reason to keep going. This ties in well your previous thoughts on the importance of care, too. Such a thought provoking post!
I'm so glad you enjoyed this! I also love hearing what someone else sees in what I write--thanks for the thought-provoking comment. I want to think more about the need to be needed. I definitely think you're right: the need to be needed is important and powerful (and good!). At the same time, though, I find that part of the burden of the new puppy, or my daughter's illness, or (back when they were babies) having twins, is the unrelentingness of being needed. The pull of the expansion of the self can stretch you too thin. That feeling of "I just want an hour to myself!" You can get breaks, but they have to be deliberate and planned, and that's its own kind of work. (Clearly I'm tired right now!) Like so much with caregiving, there needs to be breathing space even though we do need to be needed.
A the same time, that hour we could finally spend on ourselves feels so precious and good! We look forward to it and once we are in it, we tend to dedicate our full attention to it that results in us enjoying it so much! If nobody needs us and we finally have all this time to spend on ourselves, we tend to get bored. Perhaps, a la Nietzsche (or Schopenhauer for that matter), life is about creating obstacles to overcome to intensely enjoy the moment of peace and calm after the problem is solved and, once boredom inevitably ensues, creating another obstacle if life has not offered one yet. A bit of a pessimistic view of life I guess unless one somehow meditates on getting enjoyment out of overcoming obstacles similar to Camus' "One must imagine Sisyphus happy".
Very true--good point! I do get bored when I have too much completely free time. I hadn't thought of that side of it.
I tend to be a little skeptical when people say you can't be happy without sadness, can't enjoy the good without the bad, etc. But your point lends support to that claim, I think.
Something about the idea that the plant-fish ecosystem balance being about the flourishing of those life forms and the success at maintaining it feels... incomplete to me. Maybe it's because I'm an outsider to it. But I would find tremendous joy in admiring the complexities of the biological subtleties and balances and feedback loops, and in feeling like I understood them well enough to cultivate a little corner of it. Maybe that's a dangerous sense of "playing God" (erm, that is a frightening idea) but I hope it's more like a joy in the stewardship of life.
Hmm, none of that feels like it has much to do with friendship which might be why you didn't explore it in a post about friendship! Or maybe it's exactly about what you were talking about, in caring for someone for their sake? I'm tangled in my own thoughts now!
Wait, I'm confused about the friendship part. That wasn't part of this post. Are you getting it confused with the draft post I sent you?
Also, I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at with the incompleteness. I would have understood the joy/interest/meaning of maintaining the plant-fish ecosystem as including understanding the complexities. Isn't that part of aiming at its flourishing? And I see nothing connecting to playing God there. It's understanding the life forms on their own terms, which seems more like subordinating to them than dominating them.
Our family has been petless for the 18 years we've been a "family." Mostly because I didn't want to be the one "doing all the work" as you described. I consented to my daughter getting three rats as pets this year because at 11, she's finally old enough to handle most of the caretaking load. They've brought a lot of joy to our family! (But I am STILL holding firm on not getting a dog... 😅)
I hear you!
Thank you for the shout out and thank you for another great post! While thinking about your current essay and the one on AI friends, I started to think that perhaps what we are looking for in these relationships is to be needed by someone. One of the worst things that can happen in life is when nobody needs you for anything anymore rendering your life purposeless. Even if you have a lizard for a pet that shows little to no emotion in a sense that we could understand, it still needs you for its survival and this seems to provide some sort of a meaning and purpose to keep going. Seniors must feel this very intensely, even if often only subconsciously, hence many of them get pets, volunteer at hospitals, help out with grandkids, or write to share their wisdom. Perhaps this desire to be intensely needed by someone is one of the reasons why many people enjoy having kids so much with some having 5, 6, 7 and more kids? Taking care of a small child is A LOT OF WORK! But this work fills one's life with so much meaning and purpose that some people crave more of this work as their older children get more independent. Perhaps, this is why taking care of a disabled child is so meaningful for many parents: a child like my younger daughter will always need me giving me a reason to keep going. This ties in well your previous thoughts on the importance of care, too. Such a thought provoking post!
I'm so glad you enjoyed this! I also love hearing what someone else sees in what I write--thanks for the thought-provoking comment. I want to think more about the need to be needed. I definitely think you're right: the need to be needed is important and powerful (and good!). At the same time, though, I find that part of the burden of the new puppy, or my daughter's illness, or (back when they were babies) having twins, is the unrelentingness of being needed. The pull of the expansion of the self can stretch you too thin. That feeling of "I just want an hour to myself!" You can get breaks, but they have to be deliberate and planned, and that's its own kind of work. (Clearly I'm tired right now!) Like so much with caregiving, there needs to be breathing space even though we do need to be needed.
Yes please explore this "need to be needed" thing!
A the same time, that hour we could finally spend on ourselves feels so precious and good! We look forward to it and once we are in it, we tend to dedicate our full attention to it that results in us enjoying it so much! If nobody needs us and we finally have all this time to spend on ourselves, we tend to get bored. Perhaps, a la Nietzsche (or Schopenhauer for that matter), life is about creating obstacles to overcome to intensely enjoy the moment of peace and calm after the problem is solved and, once boredom inevitably ensues, creating another obstacle if life has not offered one yet. A bit of a pessimistic view of life I guess unless one somehow meditates on getting enjoyment out of overcoming obstacles similar to Camus' "One must imagine Sisyphus happy".
Very true--good point! I do get bored when I have too much completely free time. I hadn't thought of that side of it.
I tend to be a little skeptical when people say you can't be happy without sadness, can't enjoy the good without the bad, etc. But your point lends support to that claim, I think.